Prestige-ous man, again
Part two of our talk with Bob Weinstock
Without the Prestige label, the jazz record industry never would have achieved proper documentation of an art form based on the otherwise fleeting sounds of improvisation. With the recently released four-CD box, The Prestige Records Story, parent label Fantasy presents a well-chosen overview of this illustrious era of jazz (1949-71). The second part of my recent interview with Prestige founder/producer Bob Weinstock follows:
Creative Loafing: It must have made life in the studio easier when you eventually hooked up with sound engineer Rudy Van Gelder.
Bob Weinstock: I was having terrible problems with my studios. I was very annoyed with them. Sometimes they would run sound tests for an hour. From the very first session, when Rudy used his parents' living room, to the very end, I never said a word about recording to Rudy. He was a genius at sound reproduction.
When do you feel Sonny Rollins came into his own as a player?
Sonny Rollins was too much! At that time, Sonny was a joke to all of the musicians. They loved him because he was a bebopper and he knew everybody, ... played with everybody in the neighborhood group up in Harlem. But he hit so many clinkers that they would crack up when he played. They would tease him, but his ideas were so great. Despite the clinkers, they all knew, just like I knew ... because I signed him to a contract ... that he'd be a force some day. And sure enough, he was. The session when he really hit was the one that produced Saxophone Colossus.
Prestige had a lot of commercial success with Stan Getz.
When I recorded Stan Getz, I did not do it with commercialism in mind, but I had a tiger by the tail, as they say. I was confused, actually. He kept recording all these simple tunes, playing the melody, like a formula. (Disc jockey) Symphony Sid was the one that started Getz selling. He had a jazz radio show that aired in 30 states east of the Mississippi. He made Stan Getz. He played the shit out of Stan Getz.
Who were some of your other more commercially viable artists?
Our first real hit record came with "Moody's Mood for Love." It was originally an instrumental of saxophonist James Moody improvising over the changes of "I'm in the Mood for Love," but Eddie Jefferson put words to it. When King Pleasure recorded it for us, that tune took right off. Most of our best-sellers were vocalists: H-Bomb Furgeson, King Pleasure, the Cabineers, Mose Allison, Etta Jones. Instrumental sellers were the "soul jazz" [players]. Miles Davis also sold very well.
Tenor saxophonist Gene Ammons must have had an impact on the soul jazz market.
Gene Ammons was the father of soul and funk. He started that music in 1950. I liked R&B. I heard a lot of bands play and I knew there had to be room for an update, a modernization of rhythm and blues with a jazz flavor. Everything we did had a good rhythm section and swung. Nothing was ever phony, to make sales. Even when we got heavy into the funk, with organ groups and guitar and all of that, they were like the blowing sessions we did before, but with a different groove. They cooked.
Was Miles Davis ever difficult to deal with?
No, not really, but we'd get into these staring sessions. He'd ask for more money and I wouldn't answer. Then I'd look at him and he'd look at me; we'd just stand there. We went through this a lot. I'd give him the money, but I'd always say, "OK, that means we have to do another album." He'd say, "I don't want to do another album." I'd say, "And I want better people than the last!" So, that's how those sessions with Milt Jackson and Monk came about. Those were some of our best sessions, because before he'd get the money ... this was part of the game ... I'd make him think real hard about who he was going to get. Everybody wanted to play with Miles.
How did John Coltrane end up on so many sessions?
The company was doing well, so for a certain period of time while I was supervising sessions, I had every Friday booked at Van Gelder's studio, often without anything in particular in mind. I had stopped going to clubs because I wasn't hearing what I wanted to hear. So, for my own gratification, I'd set up session personnel for the enjoyment of hearing certain musicians stretch out together. Most recordings were just loosely organized jam sessions. That's why most of the tunes are standards ... and blues, which sold the records. Our profits from big sellers like Miles and Gene Ammons subsidized the recording of not-so-well-known people. That's how Coltrane was able to record so much. But really, he was a beautiful person. That was the underlying thing ... he was a beautiful person.
What led to the sale of Prestige to Fantasy in 1971?
It was obvious at that point that good records didn't mean anything. Good jazz just stopped selling. People lost interest in Monk and Miles and musicians like that. All that was selling was the soul jazz. We were selling more records than at any time in the history of the company, but it had become more of a merchandising business than anything. One of the main reasons I sold Prestige was in disgust at three quarters of the records I was making at that time. I was pissed, man! We also had a problem with distribution. A lot of the independents were being consolidated into the bigger labels, which had their own distribution. Our distributors were going bankrupt left and right, and these people were the backbone of the industry for us. Another thing that bugged me was if Prestige or Blue Note discovered a musician and recorded him, bigger companies like Atlantic and CBS were waiting in the wings and would grab him away by offering more money than we ever could. I became totally disillusioned. Fantasy has done a very nice job of keeping my product on the market. It makes me feel good to know that anybody who wants a Prestige record with half a merit can find it available through Fantasy.
How do you feel about current trends in digital recording and remastering?
Well, I think nice sound is good, but good performance is better. What did it matter that all of these old records had a horrible sound? Do you have to hear some fusion with tremendous sound, with all kinds of crap going on, and eight mics on the drums? Just give me Max Roach, when you can hardly hear the drums, but you hear the cymbal going shhhhh. That other crap is all meaningless. Man, I don't care whether it's on sand paper or toilet paper! The important question is, is the music really there at all? If it's there, dig it, listen to it and be thankful it's been preserved.
Incoming/Upcoming: The Roxy hosts renowned rhythm section Medeski, Martin & Wood May 3. The Rialto Center features pianist Billy Taylor May 20. The Civic Center presents "Springtime Jazz 2000" with Kim Waters, Walter Beasley, Chuck Loeb and Tom Brown April 29. This year's Atlanta Jazz Festival (May 27-29) lineup includes Nina Simone, Freddy Cole, David S. Ware, Claudia Villela, Regina Carter, Steve Turre, Papo Vasquez, Cyrus Chestnut, Tuck & Patti, Gonzalo Rubalcaba, TS Monk's Monk on Monk Big Band Project, Cassandra Wilson and Herbie Hancock.
Inside Info: Atlanta-based musicians pianist Gary Motley and trumpeter Lester Walker will be featured musically throughout the Alliance Theatre's production of "Blues in the Night" April 20-May 21. Gold Sparkle Band performs at the First Existentialist Congregation May 3. The Music Midtown Festival May 5-7 includes Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Celia Cruz, Francine Reed, Jazz Mandolin Project, Koko Taylor & Her Blues Machine and Taj Mahal. This summer's Classic Chastain series features Ruth Brown with Duke Robillard and Herb Ellis; Boney James & Rick Braun; Jazz Explosion with Will Downing, Gerald Albright and Chant Moore; Tony Bennett and Diana Krall; Michael Feinstein and Linda Eder; Spyro Gyra; Natalie and Freddy Cole; Tito Puente and Eddie Palmieri; Manhattan Transfer; and the Rippingtons.
Out There: Clubs/Restaurants/Venues: Roxy (404-233-7699); Rialto Center (404-651-1234); Civic Center (404-658-7159); First Existentialist Congregation (404-622-3355); Chastain (404-733-4800).
In Here: Your direct line to this column by e-mail: rozzi1625@aol.com — or voice mail: 404-296-1503. Venues, colleges, radio stations, musicians and readers are encouraged to submit listings, information and perspectives.
Creative Loafing: It must have made life in the studio easier when you eventually hooked up with sound engineer Rudy Van Gelder.
Bob Weinstock: I was having terrible problems with my studios. I was very annoyed with them. Sometimes they would run sound tests for an hour. From the very first session, when Rudy used his parents' living room, to the very end, I never said a word about recording to Rudy. He was a genius at sound reproduction.
When do you feel Sonny Rollins came into his own as a player?
Sonny Rollins was too much! At that time, Sonny was a joke to all of the musicians. They loved him because he was a bebopper and he knew everybody, ... played with everybody in the neighborhood group up in Harlem. But he hit so many clinkers that they would crack up when he played. They would tease him, but his ideas were so great. Despite the clinkers, they all knew, just like I knew ... because I signed him to a contract ... that he'd be a force some day. And sure enough, he was. The session when he really hit was the one that produced Saxophone Colossus.
Prestige had a lot of commercial success with Stan Getz.
When I recorded Stan Getz, I did not do it with commercialism in mind, but I had a tiger by the tail, as they say. I was confused, actually. He kept recording all these simple tunes, playing the melody, like a formula. (Disc jockey) Symphony Sid was the one that started Getz selling. He had a jazz radio show that aired in 30 states east of the Mississippi. He made Stan Getz. He played the shit out of Stan Getz.
Who were some of your other more commercially viable artists?
Our first real hit record came with "Moody's Mood for Love." It was originally an instrumental of saxophonist James Moody improvising over the changes of "I'm in the Mood for Love," but Eddie Jefferson put words to it. When King Pleasure recorded it for us, that tune took right off. Most of our best-sellers were vocalists: H-Bomb Furgeson, King Pleasure, the Cabineers, Mose Allison, Etta Jones. Instrumental sellers were the "soul jazz" [players]. Miles Davis also sold very well.
Tenor saxophonist Gene Ammons must have had an impact on the soul jazz market.
Gene Ammons was the father of soul and funk. He started that music in 1950. I liked R&B. I heard a lot of bands play and I knew there had to be room for an update, a modernization of rhythm and blues with a jazz flavor. Everything we did had a good rhythm section and swung. Nothing was ever phony, to make sales. Even when we got heavy into the funk, with organ groups and guitar and all of that, they were like the blowing sessions we did before, but with a different groove. They cooked.
Was Miles Davis ever difficult to deal with?
No, not really, but we'd get into these staring sessions. He'd ask for more money and I wouldn't answer. Then I'd look at him and he'd look at me; we'd just stand there. We went through this a lot. I'd give him the money, but I'd always say, "OK, that means we have to do another album." He'd say, "I don't want to do another album." I'd say, "And I want better people than the last!" So, that's how those sessions with Milt Jackson and Monk came about. Those were some of our best sessions, because before he'd get the money ... this was part of the game ... I'd make him think real hard about who he was going to get. Everybody wanted to play with Miles.
How did John Coltrane end up on so many sessions?
The company was doing well, so for a certain period of time while I was supervising sessions, I had every Friday booked at Van Gelder's studio, often without anything in particular in mind. I had stopped going to clubs because I wasn't hearing what I wanted to hear. So, for my own gratification, I'd set up session personnel for the enjoyment of hearing certain musicians stretch out together. Most recordings were just loosely organized jam sessions. That's why most of the tunes are standards ... and blues, which sold the records. Our profits from big sellers like Miles and Gene Ammons subsidized the recording of not-so-well-known people. That's how Coltrane was able to record so much. But really, he was a beautiful person. That was the underlying thing ... he was a beautiful person.
What led to the sale of Prestige to Fantasy in 1971?
It was obvious at that point that good records didn't mean anything. Good jazz just stopped selling. People lost interest in Monk and Miles and musicians like that. All that was selling was the soul jazz. We were selling more records than at any time in the history of the company, but it had become more of a merchandising business than anything. One of the main reasons I sold Prestige was in disgust at three quarters of the records I was making at that time. I was pissed, man! We also had a problem with distribution. A lot of the independents were being consolidated into the bigger labels, which had their own distribution. Our distributors were going bankrupt left and right, and these people were the backbone of the industry for us. Another thing that bugged me was if Prestige or Blue Note discovered a musician and recorded him, bigger companies like Atlantic and CBS were waiting in the wings and would grab him away by offering more money than we ever could. I became totally disillusioned. Fantasy has done a very nice job of keeping my product on the market. It makes me feel good to know that anybody who wants a Prestige record with half a merit can find it available through Fantasy.
How do you feel about current trends in digital recording and remastering?
Well, I think nice sound is good, but good performance is better. What did it matter that all of these old records had a horrible sound? Do you have to hear some fusion with tremendous sound, with all kinds of crap going on, and eight mics on the drums? Just give me Max Roach, when you can hardly hear the drums, but you hear the cymbal going shhhhh. That other crap is all meaningless. Man, I don't care whether it's on sand paper or toilet paper! The important question is, is the music really there at all? If it's there, dig it, listen to it and be thankful it's been preserved.
Incoming/Upcoming: The Roxy hosts renowned rhythm section Medeski, Martin & Wood May 3. The Rialto Center features pianist Billy Taylor May 20. The Civic Center presents "Springtime Jazz 2000" with Kim Waters, Walter Beasley, Chuck Loeb and Tom Brown April 29. This year's Atlanta Jazz Festival (May 27-29) lineup includes Nina Simone, Freddy Cole, David S. Ware, Claudia Villela, Regina Carter, Steve Turre, Papo Vasquez, Cyrus Chestnut, Tuck & Patti, Gonzalo Rubalcaba, TS Monk's Monk on Monk Big Band Project, Cassandra Wilson and Herbie Hancock.
Inside Info: Atlanta-based musicians pianist Gary Motley and trumpeter Lester Walker will be featured musically throughout the Alliance Theatre's production of "Blues in the Night" April 20-May 21. Gold Sparkle Band performs at the First Existentialist Congregation May 3. The Music Midtown Festival May 5-7 includes Bela Fleck and the Flecktones, Celia Cruz, Francine Reed, Jazz Mandolin Project, Koko Taylor & Her Blues Machine and Taj Mahal. This summer's Classic Chastain series features Ruth Brown with Duke Robillard and Herb Ellis; Boney James & Rick Braun; Jazz Explosion with Will Downing, Gerald Albright and Chant Moore; Tony Bennett and Diana Krall; Michael Feinstein and Linda Eder; Spyro Gyra; Natalie and Freddy Cole; Tito Puente and Eddie Palmieri; Manhattan Transfer; and the Rippingtons.
Out There: Clubs/Restaurants/Venues: Roxy (404-233-7699); Rialto Center (404-651-1234); Civic Center (404-658-7159); First Existentialist Congregation (404-622-3355); Chastain (404-733-4800).
In Here: Your direct line to this column by e-mail: rozzi1625@aol.com — or voice mail: 404-296-1503. Venues, colleges, radio stations, musicians and readers are encouraged to submit listings, information and perspectives.
Related
First Existentialist Congregation of Atlanta
The former home of a black Baptist church that was escaped thanks to 1950s racial hostilities is now a come-as-you-are, Unitarian house of worship that places no deity above another. In addition to Sunday "celebrations of life," the church hosts philosophy discussions, yoga, movie nights, and more.
Rialto Center for the Arts at Georgia State University
Gorgeous concert hall affiliated with Georgia State University that hosts an eclectic mix of dance, film, theater and music events, as well as art exhibits.